Fuck my life.
Why is it that people who give in to self imposed desires that have negative consequences suddenly become victims? Now the manifestations of their gluttonous and disastrous choices aren't choices at all, but rather diseases.
You're predisposed to being heavier? Yeah I get that. However what you eat is a choice. What you drink is a choice. What you decide to stick into your arm or smoke, is YOUR fucking choice.
I've dealt with this up close and personal before you decide to tell me I have no clue about such things, and I am very aware of the fact that some people are more inclined than others, to make obsessive and addictive choices. But this doesn't give them an exemption from the fact that all of it is still a god damn choice. Not a disease.
Eventually your choices led you into a physiological "need" that you can't shake. It doesn't mean you've been stricken by disease, it means that's the ramifications of your choices. The consequences of your conscious actions.
Let me also add that those of us who work our asses off through training, get blood work done, eat specific foods for months on end, don't smoke, don't drink, and live our life through training, well we never get a martyr label. We are not victims somehow. We're not stricken by a disease. That is, unless diseases also somehow encompass other traits or virtues that have severe negative connotations.
We get called obsessed or obsessive. Narcissistic. Shallow. Meatheads. Gym barbies. Freaks. I'm sure you can think of more.
Somehow, those of us that fall into those categories made choices to be that way, while all the fat people were simply stricken with disease.
"I wish I could look like you." I've heard.
You could. Oh my bad, you caught that severe case of obesity that's been going around. Those tater tots will soothe your aching soul. Continue to stuff them into your disease hole.
I'm sure someone will be offended.
Why is it that people who give in to self imposed desires that have negative consequences suddenly become victims? Now the manifestations of their gluttonous and disastrous choices aren't choices at all, but rather diseases.
You're predisposed to being heavier? Yeah I get that. However what you eat is a choice. What you drink is a choice. What you decide to stick into your arm or smoke, is YOUR fucking choice.
I've dealt with this up close and personal before you decide to tell me I have no clue about such things, and I am very aware of the fact that some people are more inclined than others, to make obsessive and addictive choices. But this doesn't give them an exemption from the fact that all of it is still a god damn choice. Not a disease.
Eventually your choices led you into a physiological "need" that you can't shake. It doesn't mean you've been stricken by disease, it means that's the ramifications of your choices. The consequences of your conscious actions.
Let me also add that those of us who work our asses off through training, get blood work done, eat specific foods for months on end, don't smoke, don't drink, and live our life through training, well we never get a martyr label. We are not victims somehow. We're not stricken by a disease. That is, unless diseases also somehow encompass other traits or virtues that have severe negative connotations.
We get called obsessed or obsessive. Narcissistic. Shallow. Meatheads. Gym barbies. Freaks. I'm sure you can think of more.
Somehow, those of us that fall into those categories made choices to be that way, while all the fat people were simply stricken with disease.
"I wish I could look like you." I've heard.
You could. Oh my bad, you caught that severe case of obesity that's been going around. Those tater tots will soothe your aching soul. Continue to stuff them into your disease hole.
I'm sure someone will be offended.
Cancer is a disease. Fat is not.
ReplyDeleteThis is an excerpt from the AMA resolution in question:
Delete> Whereas, The suggestion that obesity is not a disease but rather a consequence of a chosen lifestyle exemplified by overeating and/or inactivity is equivalent to suggesting that lung cancer is not a disease because it was brought about by individual choice to smoke cigarettes
Agree 100%. They could've used STDs or any number of diseases that result from voluntary activities.
DeleteThough I agree what you decide to eat is a personal choice, you have to acknowledge our society isn't exactly postured to set people up for success.
ReplyDeleteThe issue isn't straightforward. If it was, telling people the right thing to do would be enough to inculcate success. But it's not. It never is. We tell people it's wrong to committ murder, and it continues to happen. So we've structured our society in such a way as to reduce the number of instances. We punish and rehabilitate criminals by putting them in jail.
Just like murder is bad for everybody, the obesity epidemic is raising health care costs and poisoning the gene pool. It's bad for everybody. Therefore, I don't think I'm too far off-base when I say obesity should be considered a crime and we should start putting people in jail for it. Punishment and rehabilitation.
> the obesity epidemic is raising health care costs
DeleteDepressingly, that's not as certain as you might think. Whilst there are significant health-care costs associated with obesity (wikipedia claims ~20% of total healthcare costs in the US, I think), it kills people young enough that they don't incur other costs later in life. It's not entirely clear which alternative costs more.
A group of researchers looked at the issue in the Netherlands, and concluded that "Because of differences in life expectancy, however, lifetime health expenditure was highest among healthy-living people and lowest for smokers. Obese individuals held an intermediate position." and "Obesity prevention may be an important and cost-effective way of improving public health, but it is not a cure for increasing health expenditures."*
* http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.0050029
Wait, what? Send people to jail for being obese? You think that will fix it? really? Jail is for punishment plain and simple. It doesn't change the hearts of the people who go there. In fact, unless they have a life changing experience most of the inmates will continue the activities that put them there in the first place.
DeleteNot to mention food in jails is horrible. If you think you can rehabilitate an obese person on that crap you are sadly mistaken. Besides you can trade anything for a pack of smokes. (Brother in law spent some time there).
I'm not willing to call obesity a disease, but going so far as to call it a crime is stupidity gone to seed. That's just my two cents.
Health expenses will inevitably go up because there are more people around and these days everyone lives forever. Eighty today is what seventy used to be 20 years ago, and, barring a global disaster that wipes us all out, many people in my generation will live to be 100+.
DeleteAt the same time these added decades of life have not been accompanied by a corresponding improvement in general health, at least not in the developed world. People still go on meds at 50, only instead of barely making it to 65 (15 more years) they will quite happily live to 80 or even 90 (more than double the cost burden). 100%-certified killers like cancer and heart disease are also becoming far less lethal. So anything that kills people earlier, it can be argued, will reduce this burden. Fatboy goes on meds at 25 and lives to 50; fitboy goes on meds at 50 or 60 and lives to 100 - who costs us more?
I got kicked out of my an AA meeting I had to attend while my brother was in rehab for drinking.
ReplyDeleteIt was a family attendence type of meeting where the family tells the person in rehab how their addiction has affected them all.
This pilot is getting crushed by his wife and this other guy decides to chime in. "would you be angry at him if he had cancer?" He asked her.
That was all I could take, so I spoke up and tried to articulate the reason I thought that was bullshit. I told them all they hurt people because they chose to drink, and the only fucking thing that was ever going to help them not drink was.....not putting the bottle to your lips and taking a sip....that simple.
I never believed in the addiction is a disease thing, and I used to really run of the fuel of hate to accomplish most of the shit I made myself do in life, so it was easy to just be mad at people like my brother for hurting my moms cuz he couldn't NOT DRINK.
But as I got older and a little less angry I look at it in a new light really. I still hate those people who hurt other people because they can't stay sober. But I was recently granted custody of a 10 year old girl who we have been taking care of for about 4 years on weekends and other times. Her mom is bipolar and skitzo and her dad is locked up.
I have had to deal with her fucking meth head insane mother for a while now.
It has given me a new perspective that really just gets to the point of the question of obesity as a disease.
When do bad choices actually qualify as a behavioral disorder, which are documented illnesses?
It's almost impossible to say.
People in general are just fucking stupid and self destructive. That will never change.
> it is still a god damn choice. Not a disease.
ReplyDeleteThe two aren't mutually exclusive: according to the AMA this is a disease most often caused by persistent overeating. When they decided it was a disease, ALL they were saying was: (i) it's an impairment of normal function of the body; (ii) it has symptoms; and (iii) it can hurt and/or kill you.
The recent statement by the AMA that obesity is a disease says NOTHING about whether it's a choice or not. Ebola is a disease whether or not I voluntarily injected it or not. Lung cancer is a disease whether or not I got it from smoking cigarettes.
Basically, all the AMA is saying here is "This shit will fuck you up, and is something that needs to be fixed."
Here's the press release, if you want to read it: http://media.npr.org/documents/2013/jun/ama-resolution-obesity.pdf
I could debate it from either side. Before I could only see it one way.
ReplyDeleteIt's pretty easy to say its simply a choice. But why people choose to do things can be much more complicated.
People are not all the same. What can seem like a pretty easy decision to make for you could be nearly impossible for someone else.
Having the mental ability to understand and apply self discipline is a skill that not everyone has.
At the end of the day I still hate all the people who fuck everything up for other people, but that some human nature sociological bullshit that can apply to everything. It won't ever stop or go away. If its not obesity it will be something else equally fucking frustrating.
Obesity is just extra aggravating to people who exercise and have some type of health consciousnesses.
Two tears in a bucket......
You realize American universities already offer degrees for video game testing... The next one will be a Bache lor's in "not wanting to do anything but eat cheetos and make YouTube videos".
ReplyDeleteIt mostly looks like people just don't want to try anymore. "I will (try)" has globally been replaced with "I can't (try)".
It'd suck if our troops claimed a disease of needing to play CoD 24/7 and couldn't do drills... Or support and defend.
A choice is a fkin' choice! Do NOT turn it into a disease. I've lost over 100lbs. I gained about 20 pounds of fat back----would I blame my "disease" Hell no! Those 20bs came from laziness. I know exactly HOW to maintain a lean and mean wrcking machine---I simply fked up my choices. I ate Cake instead of Chicken. Is it a easy choice to keep eating super-healthy all the time? fuck no. Iknow my body doesn't have the best genetics when it comes to physical fatloss, but I also know of choices I can make to overcome it. The choices are always right in my face. For me--its a matter of food. I can eat more than two 250lb bodybuilders combined in a single day (healthy food or junk).
ReplyDeleteSome people just don't understand the level of difficulty of some choices. "Why is it so hard to just eat Good all the time?" This usually comes from someone who doesn't do jack shit. "Alright, Jack-----every morning I want you to do 500 pushups. No matter what? I mean after all, how hard that would be? Shouldn't take longer than 15-20 minutes??" They're taken back! "Screw that!" That only takes 15 minutes---food is in your face 24/7...(and I think 500 every morning is easy). Choices are choices! Not diseases.
Working in a gym as an instructor/PT for the last few years I do a handful of "weight loss" consultations every week. Everybody knows that (on a basic level) eating lots of high fat/sugary foods, drinking regularly, and doing no exercise will make you fat.
ReplyDeleteThere's a difference between knowing something and doing something. That's a choice - you're looking at both options from an informed perspective and choosing the one you know for a fact is wrong/bad for you.
"Nobody chooses to be fat" is bullshit. Granted, very few people would choose to go from healthy to obese overnight but is there really a difference between one single choice and a million smaller choices?
This isn't about intelligence or knowledge, this about being an adult and taking responsibility for yourself whether that's drugs, stealing, eating cake, drinking, smoking, cheating on your wife. Whatever. It's a choice, and i bet you could use same excuses for all of them interchangeably
Addiction may have a lot of psychological baggage behind it, and food addiction is no different, but you still have a conscious mind and can overcome that.
I know a few 20+ year smokers who quit cold turkey because a friend or relative died of cancer. Quitting was still just as psychologically/physically hard for them as it was for anybody but they made the decision.
I used to hide behind "strength training" as an excuse to stay fat and eat pizza every day. I made the decision to not do that anymore and now have veins on my abs. It was fucking hard but pizza is less important than being healthy for my job and looking good for my wife.
That's my take on it anyway.
I wish I could find that article... I read an article by someone with a medical degree who works with the morbidly obese. She regularly deals with the worst case scenario. Her patients sometimes need a specialized crew to widen doorways and move people on to reinforced gurneys to go in an ambulance that is designed for people over 440 lbs.
ReplyDeleteHer article was probably the most balanced and well reasoned approach to the subject. She did not agree that obesity is a disease, even though some of her colleagues giving speeches at professional conferences did. And those that did consider it a disease were themselves obese. It's a comforting thought to be able to blame anything but yourselves.
The flip side of the coin is that many of the morbidly obese have gone through things that no one should have to go through. They turned to food in order to cope. And it's probably for those reasons that well meaning family who feels sorry for that person enables them to be morbidly obese, even after they can't get out of bed anymore.
Honestly, I can't see being obese as the disease itself any more than I can see smoking as a disease. However, both activities or states can lead to a host of diseases. According to that article, being obese shortens your life even more than smoking so if you had to choose a vice...
That said, I used to be truly fat. I've dropped a few body fat percentage points, and it's stubborn work to chisel off the weight and keep it off. I never thought I had a disease. Fact is, I'm healthy. No disease, and I'm still technically obese. Gotta drop about 4% body fat to be considered "normal" for my age and keep it off. The state of your body fat is either a choice of commission (choosing to be heavy) or a choice of omission (not doing what is necessary). Either way, it's still a choice.
It is a thread on irongarm forum called "for you fatfucks in the weight loss thread"
DeleteI don't recall people claiming that fatasses are victims....
ReplyDeleteI have read that obesity is an epidemic and considered a disease, but I don't think it's viewed in the same light as being born with anklyosing spondalitis and being half crippled by 50.
I think some people over react on the words "disease" and "obesity" being in the same sentence.
And I'm not fat, and have never been fat. The sky was just falling waaay before some Doc said fatness is a disease.
Lung cancer is a disease, but yellow nails and teeth and bad breath are not. You can't cure ebola or lung cancer by just adjusting your behavior. AMA's position is silly.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, AMA only represents about 15% of practicing physicians as of 2011. Plenty of doctors and other medical professionals disagree with AMA's definition of "disease" and other political positions AMA takes.
This was beautiful.
ReplyDeleteI couldn't agree more. Its disheartening to see people acting like victims for their laziness as well. For god's sake, people blame McDonald's toys for making their kids fat. Some discipline could go along way (even in my own case). It's the corporations fault for making that entire box of cookies so delicious.
ReplyDeleteNow as far as claiming disease.. almost anything can be a disease. "Disease broadly refers to any condition that impairs normal function, and is therefore associated with dysfunction of normal homeostasis." Anything behavioral that is "hard" to control (ie. discipline) could be labeled disease.
Some of these people do have some sort of compulsive eating disorder. But most everyone these days want to be a fucking victim of something. "I could have do it, but I'm black, or white or male or female or I have this and that and this is holding me back or I don't know the right people or I was born in this situation...blah blah bull fucking shit..."
ReplyDelete"I wish, or I hope", they say. Every time from now on if I hear the words "I wish", I'm gonna say "fuck you...do".
There is some shit that is outside of your control, your genes, your whatever. I understand that. But everyone has that, so handle the shit that is inside, because that's all that really matters, and as you do handle more of whats inside, you'll start to slowly learn how to control a greater portion of things you thought were outside. That's called fucking learning. When you throw a football the first time, you can't even control where its headed, but you try to use whatever you know, and slowly you learn how to control more aspects of it, if you keep at it.
Some people do have severe disorders, thanks to the inherent lazyness of everyone these days, those people are now mocked and lumped in. Or maybe everyone's fucking depressed theses days. Being depressed because they try and fail.
Now that's fucking entitlement. Thinking that you should have succeeded because you tried.
You should do or die.
And actually fucking try to die when you do. No one should hear about you failing because you should have died in the process.
People always think and wonder about the old school, and how they got jacked and their test levels and how they kicked ass, and were good men. Its cause those who didn't perform died. And everyone was willing to die. There was no support system. You chose to feed yourself and your family or you die and get wiped off. When you commit and accept to die for something you tend to do it.
Life is not some great wonderful thing you should worry about having shortened. It is a blank fucking page that gets longer, and it will only be as good as whatever you put on and are willing to die for.
And most people are willing to die for doing nothing.
Amen. Hallelujah.
ReplyDeleteI'm new to the blog, was enjoying the lifting posts, but seems we got another gem here. A real pearl of wisdom.
ReplyDeleteThis article could have just as well been about any other substance abuse or even insomnia. All weak minded bitches that dwell on petty things. Why does this not apply to those slamming junk, drinking, or keeping themselves up thinking about petty bullshit that would only bother some weak ass minded motherfucker? All of these are based on petty shit but you only grill one. If you have no brain defect(s) you should be able to stop anything, even the thoughts that keep you from getting rest. Somehow drug substitutes for junkies and sleeping pills for people with mommy/daddy issues are socially acceptable but not drugs to help people dealing with abusing food.
People drink, take drugs and choose to torture themselves in many different ways. Seems you think all other coping methods but food are OK, or maybe just more cool because they don't make you fat. In the end all one needs to do is stop dwelling on petty BS. That's it. If it did not immediately impact you or your family in a profound way, man the fuck up! Get over it, your problems and coping methods are no more socially acceptable than the next guy, even if he is a fat fuck.
So, you are in shape, I'm in shape, most of the people in our lives are in shape... being assholes about it is not going to help anyone.
I'm sure a lot of people make a lot of money, now that beaing fat is considered a disease in your country. It's always about money. You suddenly gained yourself a high amount of 'sick' people. The drug industrie will be happy to hear this.
ReplyDelete